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 The GoatTracker Compo (10 entries)    
GOAT TRACKER COMPO 8.-22.october 2001
39 votes collected, results comming soon.
GET C64 EXECUTABLE PACK - GOATTUNES.PRG!
ENJOY THE TUNES, READ YOUR COMMENTS HERE!

Thanx to Lasse ??rni for the C64 executable. Enjoy.

[1] : 10. Oct 2001 03:32   
Lasse did another nice update of his editor. 8th October 2001: GoatTracker V0.98 Beta released. Added Follow Play & fast scrolling with PAGEUP/PAGEDOWN keys. Get it from the link above.
CreaMD

[2] : 14. Oct 2001 11:07   
GoatTracker v0.99 - HardSID support added. At the usual address: www.student.oulu.fi/~loorni/software/goattrk.zip In short, use /H1 commandline option to enable first HardSID, /H2 for second etc. and /H0 to return to emulated output. I can't guarantee 100% correct playback timing (as Windows can't) but at least it's something.. Thanks to lala@c64.org for suggestions and testing. (Posted in Lemon64.com forum by Lasse ?ōrni)
CreaMD

[3] : 16. Oct 2001 01:07   
A Goat Trracker group - GOATS is PRETTY ACTIVE! Check their songs here: http://members.home.nl/problems/goats/
CreaMD

[4] : 20. Oct 2001 18:37   
A C64 devoted site which supports a competition composing using a PC with an emulated SID ?
ThunderBlade

[5] : 20. Oct 2001 20:08   
This is a C64 devoted site, yes. I've found Goat Tracker a very valuable tool with very good parameters as far as packing efficiency and raster usage of player is concerned, so I wanted to let people to check it's composing possibilities and make support&feedback for author to motivate him to improve this tool. It is a tool which produces music for on C64, not C64 music remixed for PC. It's a PLUS for the scene, not a minus. It can eveng get tracker using PC musicians to try SID, which is quite interesting, isn't it? If you read the article, you would know that not only pack of Sidtunes but also collection of tunes for C64 would be released (simple, yet executable ;-). IMHO this is definitely a support of the C64. Does anybody have different opinion?
CreaMD

[6] : 20. Oct 2001 22:57   
It's like graphicians who use PC or Amiga to draw for C64. I don't think it's bad, but it would be much cooler if they did it on C64. They don't, because tools on Amiga/PC are better. But no one writes better tools on C64, because why, when there are already better tools on Amiga/PC. And why should one play games on C64, when there are better games on Amiga/PC. Etc. That's the aspect I personally do not like, that's all. Just my opinion...

[7] : 21. Oct 2001 10:14   
I'm sure that for majority of C64 musicians it's much more convenient to compose on C64. They have more control and accuracy. Ask them. Still GOAT has it's value for the rest of musicians and it can bring a new fresh musical inspiration to the scene. As far as quantity of tool production is concerned. It's like with with the rest of production for C64 & Amiga & PC. We can see that almost no one produces better tools for C64 on C64, Amiga, or PC at all! Talking about less production because of better tools on other plattforms is not an argument. Also, there already are well established tools for C64 and people use them. As far as Games playing on C64 is concerned, you can't enforce anyone to read you favourtie book, just because it's a good stuff. First, people read less, second people have right to choose on their own. So is with games. There are people who love C64 games, play them, even the new ones. As far as better tools preffered are concerned, developers produced for C64 on crossplattform environment since ages, professional developers always seek for easier solutions. Also, IMHO there aren't better tools for C64 drawing on Amiga or PC, yet. Only better tools for drawing in general, wired pictures drawn on Amiga or PC are identifiable, just ask competent people. No doubt, Goattracker player routine is also easily identifiable. The collection coming from this compo will show if GOAT is a perfect tool, or if it needs more time to work on. As far as aspects we like & don't like are concerned --- the aspect I personally don't like is, that everybody tries to find reason outside themselves, everybody tries to find someone, something what is responsible for the crisis in the C64 scene, but I tell you. It's not out there, it's in us. We all are those who are responsible for the quality, value and credibility of what surrounds us.
CreaMD

[8] : 21. Oct 2001 14:53   
The GoatTracker and my other crossplatform tools are just the result of my own experiences and what I like best myself. Of course, as a byproduct it's also cool to make them freely available for anyone else, as CreaMD said it doesn't take anything away from anybody. See, when I was programming, making graphics & music on the C64 (roughly in 1987-1992) I got NOTHING bigger finished, because of much pain involved in assembling all the code & data together and the long loading/saving times. On the other hand, also in PC programming (1994-) I never got much done because although the tools are good and working is fast, there's too much of data creation(256+ color graphics, sound from real soundsources) involved. Also CPU power limits are so far out of reach that I aimed for kind of "mega-projects" that never got finished. But for me, the combination of targeting C64 and using crossplatform tools (1998-) was ideal, and some bigger work also got finished. I sense there's a fear with these crossplatform tools that the "holy" scene will be invaded with PC-emu-lamers or something. But I see it so that unless a person has had contact with C64 during its "golden times", there is very little chance that he will have interest to create for that platform. And when the last of these people (us) loses interest, there will be no new "emu-lamer-generation" but the C64 scene will die instead.

[9] : 22. Oct 2001 22:17   
I think GoatTracker is a great tool. Until I got a new C= machine again, I was cursing and kicking walls because I couldn't compose SID music with my machine, and I was not going to use an awful emulator for such purposes (my sucky PC can't handle a high-end emulator with better sound support). So Lasse's creation was kind of a godsend to me. I now got a new 128, but I ain't got the tools to transfer programs yet, so for now Goat proves very useful (and now became the only reason why I'm keeping that stupid beamer compatible :) Keep up teh great work, Lasse
Akira

[10] : 24. Oct 2001 19:59   
Mmmmm...maybe we're judging the tip of an iceberg only. I usually use a Plus/4 with SidCard support (8580) to compose my tunes, and it works fine coupled with the SidWinder V01.23, 'coz it replace the right c64 frq table. But I'm wondering a day of perfect SID emulation on PC, so everybody will be allowed to compose his tune.

[11] : 24. Oct 2001 23:39   
There have been Amiga MOD trackers on the pc for ages, so why not a sid tracker too? Maybe Goattracker in the future will be able to raise the quality of sidmusic to the next level? I think so. All I wish is an easier and more understandable UI....

[12] : 25. Oct 2001 01:05   
To Skyrider - trackers exist on C64 long before this. This seems to be the first one that works under the Windows platform and not a C64. It is hard to use emulation to take performance/quality to the next level because sound emulation needs to go a long way before it sounds like our real SID hardware. I do use emulators for some development, just not for sound/music writing.

[13] : 25. Oct 2001 09:31   
Stryyker: Yes, I know there has been lotsa trackers for the C64. My point was that as far as I know, this is the first one for the PC (and judging the compo, a pretty good one). Sorry if I made this unclear. Anyway, Im not a C64 scener (Not the way you see it). I've created music, but not at all with a C64. currently I dont even have a C64, so I dont know how well the sidchip is emulated. It may never be 100%perfect. It's true that it has a far way to go. Yet I think it has come far comparing to some years ago...
Skyrider

[14] : 25. Oct 2001 22:45   
I think SID chip emulation has a long way to go as well, but the GT is a great tool in the case you have no real hardware to play with. If you have a HardSID card, even better. What this tool will do, IMO, is increase the number of people interested in SID music composing. This is one factor that might scare a lot of people, because it might bring the SID composing out from the 'underground'. Well, this might not happen but it's a possibility. I have no problems with the UI, it's just great, as a matter of fact I find it a bit more user friendly than a lot of C64 trackers. That's one of the things I liked of GT.
Akira

[15] : 26. Oct 2001 21:54   
Akira, you're right. A large slice of my SID tunes was composed via wave coverting software on Plus/4. Useless to explain how lame they sound on the real SID, 'coz that kind of emulation takes the wavetypes only! But I'd learnt a lot about SID composing by this way...

[16] : 29. Oct 2001 02:09   
Currenlty 28 -sound- votesheets vere submitted 22 More votesheets needed to be filled for to make the results objective enough. This portal has average 200+ unique visitors a day. Where are you people ;-). Anyway Tommorow I'll add some of your very interesting comments (at least for me as an organiser ;-) And try to put together an executable C64 version I wanted to put together on after the compo, but it seems some of you need real C64 executable for voting. Just let me know what do you think about it? I think this demand is right, and apologise for the delay. Remember VOTING deadline is set FRIDAY 2. november 2001.
CreaMD

[17] : 29. Oct 2001 09:42   
Erm - do you want to say that before it was possible to d/l only the PC files for emulation? Well, that should explain why it seems that people aren't interested in voting, me thinks. About the voting deadline: what if by Friday 2. 11. there still isn't your desired 50 voties?
Wotnau/DMagic

[18] : 29. Oct 2001 15:36   
Check http://www.student.oulu.fi/~loorni/goattunes.zip for a primitive "screen" playing all the tunes (single .PRG file) This was a matter of 1/2 hours :-)

[19] : 29. Oct 2001 19:19   
Wotnau, if I won't get those +22 voties nothing happens. Lasse, thanx!
CreaMD

[20] : 30. Oct 2001 13:05   
Sorry for the problem with accessibility of VOTER's comments. Now you can check it. Enjoy.
CreaMD

[21] : 30. Oct 2001 15:53   
Skydiver???? Have I been to fast on the keyboard again?
Skyrider

[22] : 30. Oct 2001 16:05   
Ups, sorry. ;-)
CreaMD

[23] : 30. Oct 2001 17:05   
Hehe, It's alright mate!
Skyrider

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